Ep4: The Spirit of Community: Inside Spiritualist Churches

[00:00:00] Hello, welcome to the Mediums Voice podcast. I'm your host Michelle Mosley and my co-host is Philip. Today we have joining us is Janice Jones. Welcome Jan.

[00:00:13] Thank you Michelle and Philip. You're the president of Spennymoor Spiritualist Church.

[00:00:20] I am, yes.

[00:00:20] For how many years? I can't remember.

[00:00:23] Around about 10 plus, yeah.

[00:00:26] Wow, a long time.

[00:00:27] So today I think we're going to chat about what it is to be a spiritualist.

[00:00:35] And I think you could probably, do you want to start us off and tell us a little bit about yourself first Jan?

[00:00:40] Okay, well I've been coming to this church for about more than 30 years now.

[00:00:45] I started off just coming because I was nausea and I wanted to see what happened.

[00:00:49] And it just carried on from there until I eventually went on to the committee and eventually when nobody else would have the presidency,

[00:00:56] I had to take it.

[00:00:58] So that's how I got the job, not on my merits I've got to say.

[00:01:04] Gently persuaded.

[00:01:06] Gently persuaded with my arm behind my back, yes.

[00:01:10] So yeah, and we seem to do all right. We have a good committee and we all seem to work well together.

[00:01:17] How long have you been within spiritualism then, roughly? Not just as the president but involved within the movement?

[00:01:25] Probably about 35 years. The first time I ever went to a service I was about 14.

[00:01:30] Wow.

[00:01:30] And I went with a couple of friends and we came out giggling like you do.

[00:01:33] Yeah.

[00:01:34] But I can still remember the message.

[00:01:36] What church was that that you went to?

[00:01:37] It was in a little hut in Ferry Hill, which is no longer there.

[00:01:41] And I can still remember the message and I couldn't understand it then but I do now.

[00:01:46] What was the message?

[00:01:48] Well, the bit I remember is about a red rose in June and it meant nothing to me.

[00:01:52] But now knowing and listening to other people's messages, I should have realised that my grandfather died in June

[00:02:00] and he was the only grandparent I had then in the spirit world probably.

[00:02:05] Yeah.

[00:02:06] No, I had more than that.

[00:02:08] But yeah, that was my first communication.

[00:02:10] So it probably got me hooked but I mean I went to other churches before I came here.

[00:02:15] So what made you go back again then?

[00:02:19] As I say, just being nosy.

[00:02:21] It wasn't because I'd lost anyone or it wasn't because I'm...

[00:02:25] A night at the spookies, see what it's about.

[00:02:27] Yeah, let's go down to the spookies and have a night out.

[00:02:29] Yeah, that was a bit like me as well.

[00:02:31] And then you just come back and come back until it becomes a way of life and you know, to get to what is spiritualism,

[00:02:38] well it's my religion and it has been for a long time now.

[00:02:42] But a lot of people don't realise that it is a religion.

[00:02:45] They just think it is communicating with the spirit world.

[00:02:49] Yeah, that's right.

[00:02:50] I think as well, just you mentioned there, you went to other faiths didn't you before this one?

[00:02:56] Yeah.

[00:02:56] So what other faiths did you go to? Were you brought up in the religion?

[00:03:01] I was brought up in the Salvation Army.

[00:03:02] Oh right, okay.

[00:03:03] I spent some time at the Methodist because they had a good youth club.

[00:03:07] I tried the Church of England but it didn't fit.

[00:03:11] The Church of Scotland I went to for a while.

[00:03:13] Yeah.

[00:03:13] And then after that, that's when I started coming here.

[00:03:16] Did you feel then that, for me for example, when I first got involved in spiritualism, I didn't really know it was where I was meant to be.

[00:03:26] I didn't get a sense of that.

[00:03:27] I didn't get a feeling of, I feel at home here.

[00:03:30] However, something like you spoke about earlier Michelle is kept pulling me back in a way.

[00:03:36] And I don't know what that is, even now.

[00:03:37] I'm not sure what that is.

[00:03:39] But did you get that same pull or, it was more, I would say it was more of an interest than anything else.

[00:03:45] It was more of an interest than me.

[00:03:46] I didn't get that feeling that I've got to go.

[00:03:48] Yes.

[00:03:49] You know, I enjoyed it.

[00:03:51] I enjoyed the atmosphere.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:53] And yeah, just enjoyed coming.

[00:03:55] I came with my sister and a friend and I came for a long time.

[00:04:00] Now I'm, well I'm not on my own because Chris comes with me.

[00:04:03] When I first started coming he was babysitting.

[00:04:05] Oh.

[00:04:07] So it was a bit of peace and quiet.

[00:04:09] Yeah.

[00:04:10] Yeah, it was my night off.

[00:04:12] Your night out, your big night out.

[00:04:14] Yeah.

[00:04:14] That was about it, yeah.

[00:04:16] Well.

[00:04:17] Yeah, so do you feel then, over the years obviously, you've probably been involved in

[00:04:24] spiritualism more than double the amount of time I have.

[00:04:27] But do you think that there's been a shift in attitude towards spiritualism or-

[00:04:34] Definitely.

[00:04:34] Over that period of time.

[00:04:36] How has it changed?

[00:04:37] Definitely.

[00:04:38] I think people are slightly more accepting.

[00:04:40] Yeah.

[00:04:41] Um, than they used to be.

[00:04:43] So was it more clicky then or-

[00:04:46] We didn't learn anything.

[00:04:47] I came here a long time before I knew what the messages were about.

[00:04:52] Because you'd get a message and you'd be delighted and you'd go home and you'd think,

[00:04:56] what was that all about?

[00:04:57] Yeah.

[00:04:57] And I was here a long time before I really learned that it's a communication to let you

[00:05:03] know there is life after death and that's all.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:06] Not telling your future, not, you know, giving your advice or-

[00:05:10] I think that's a misconception as well, isn't it?

[00:05:13] Yeah.

[00:05:13] I come across that all the time.

[00:05:15] The moment that you talk about spiritualism, mediumship, anything like that, people automatically

[00:05:22] think, you know, it's-

[00:05:24] You can tell me the lottery numbers or-

[00:05:27] Yeah.

[00:05:27] And it's not that.

[00:05:29] It's not that.

[00:05:30] Not in a church.

[00:05:31] They might get that in a private sitting somewhere.

[00:05:33] Yeah.

[00:05:33] But as a church we are regulated by the union to- we have to follow certain rules.

[00:05:40] To prove that there is the existence of life.

[00:05:42] Yeah, we follow certain rules and it's to protect the general public as well as to protect

[00:05:47] the person given the communication I suppose.

[00:05:50] But also I think it's important that we have them rules because it's not a show, is it?

[00:05:57] It's about reunion of two people.

[00:06:00] It's not an entertainment rule.

[00:06:01] Exactly, yeah.

[00:06:02] And I think we're probably all guilty of a period of time in our lives where we've-

[00:06:08] either some of us have had thoughts of, oh, we'll have a night to the spookies.

[00:06:12] Yeah.

[00:06:12] Jovial, but there was no malice to it.

[00:06:14] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:15] And we didn't really have the understanding, say, that we did as time goes on.

[00:06:20] And I think that's important to realise is that most people you get that come into a church,

[00:06:24] they're not there for the religion at first, are they?

[00:06:27] They're there for mediumship or for whatever other reason.

[00:06:30] And it's only in time that they become more involved that they realise actually this is a major part of my life now.

[00:06:37] You know, it's become part of me.

[00:06:39] A lot of people come in for a communication and they get it and some people never come back.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:46] But some people will get the taste for it and, oh yes, I'm going to go back.

[00:06:49] Yeah.

[00:06:49] And yes, you keep on coming back and you enjoy it.

[00:06:52] And there's always a cup of tea in the chat after the service, which is when you learn a lot.

[00:06:57] Yeah.

[00:06:58] When some of the messages get given that weren't given off in a service.

[00:07:01] And so it's because of that, almost like that sense of community, isn't it?

[00:07:05] Well, I think a church is a community.

[00:07:07] Yes.

[00:07:08] Isn't it?

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:09] You know, I think that's what the word church actually means.

[00:07:11] It is a community.

[00:07:12] And yes, we do come in, I suppose as all religions, we come in to worship God, to pray, to sing hymns.

[00:07:19] But there is that communication there as well.

[00:07:21] For me, that's the thing that always, I've always spoke about that keeps people coming back into it is the community side of it is.

[00:07:30] You meet people, and I've probably said this about yourselves in the past, where I would never, ever have encountered some of the people that I've met through spiritualism in my everyday life, like at all.

[00:07:42] Exactly.

[00:07:42] And I would think I'm quite blessed really that I've had that opportunity to meet all these different people, not just spiritualists or mediums, but loads of different people that you come into contact with that you wouldn't have even spoke to any other way.

[00:07:57] So I think that's a major part of it really that often gets pushed to one side or forgotten about.

[00:08:03] Yeah.

[00:08:04] I suppose the question is, what does it mean to be a spiritualist?

[00:08:09] That is the question.

[00:08:11] What do you think it means to be a spiritualist, John?

[00:08:13] I think that's a difficult one.

[00:08:14] I think we have to try to live our life according to the spiritualist principles, which is difficult.

[00:08:21] At times.

[00:08:22] I was just saying, do you do that?

[00:08:24] No.

[00:08:26] We have to try.

[00:08:27] I think I'm more aware of things I say now before I say something I shouldn't.

[00:08:35] Yeah.

[00:08:36] I think we have to try to be kinder to each other.

[00:08:38] I think that's certainly becoming still doing me.

[00:08:41] Yeah.

[00:08:42] You don't have to be a spiritualist though to attain them values.

[00:08:45] No.

[00:08:45] Definitely not.

[00:08:46] You don't have to be a spiritualist to be a spiritual person.

[00:08:50] Yeah.

[00:08:53] Yeah.

[00:08:56] Exactly.

[00:08:57] I think as you go through the movement or get more involved in it, not the movement as such actually, that's probably the wrong term, but as you become more self-aware, I would say.

[00:09:10] Yeah.

[00:09:10] That's what it really is, isn't it?

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] You have this self-awareness that seems to grow.

[00:09:14] And that's when the principles really come into play because you're more conscious like you say of what you say, what you do.

[00:09:22] And we're not perfect.

[00:09:23] No one's perfect.

[00:09:24] It's down to though, anybody can be a spiritualist.

[00:09:27] Yeah.

[00:09:28] But, um, spiritualism is a part of a religion.

[00:09:34] Yeah.

[00:09:34] And that's the difference.

[00:09:35] Yeah.

[00:09:36] So you've got the ism, which we spoke about earlier, the religion and then spiritual.

[00:09:41] Yeah.

[00:09:41] And, um, I could imagine that a lot of general public probably think they hate, or sorry, they hear the word spiritualist and they think, oh, you know, we're some spiritual beings that meditate and we're lovely and peaceful.

[00:09:58] But like you say, there's a lot that aren't.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Most people use the word spiritualist and they just think you're a bit daft.

[00:10:04] Well, yeah.

[00:10:04] A bit naive.

[00:10:06] But can I just make the point that we had visitors from the interfaith movement in church, um, it's a good few months ago now.

[00:10:13] Yeah.

[00:10:14] And they just came to see what we were about.

[00:10:17] And I think they were quite impressed.

[00:10:19] And one of the ladies, who was totally different faith, looked at our principles and said, well, I can't disagree with any of that.

[00:10:26] Yeah.

[00:10:27] It's common sense, isn't it?

[00:10:28] It is.

[00:10:28] Yeah.

[00:10:29] It's everyday life, isn't it?

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:31] There's a couple of on there that I'll probably struggle with.

[00:10:34] Who I struggle with?

[00:10:35] Yeah.

[00:10:36] Most of them, isn't it?

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:39] Yeah.

[00:10:40] Um, but you know, like I said before, none of us are perfect, are we?

[00:10:45] Yeah, I think there's one on there that I struggle with.

[00:10:47] If we were perfect, we wouldn't be here.

[00:10:49] Exactly, yeah.

[00:10:50] Can you imagine how good it would be if we all walked around thinking we were amazing all the time?

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:56] It's people like that now, isn't it?

[00:10:58] Yeah, there ain't that.

[00:10:58] What do you mean? You were just saying that to us earlier.

[00:11:02] Uh-huh.

[00:11:04] Which principle is the hardest for you, Michelle?

[00:11:07] Hey, for me it's the fatherhood of God. Right?

[00:11:11] I'd be in agreement with that.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:14] Uh-huh.

[00:11:14] And I'll give my reasoning.

[00:11:17] Yeah.

[00:11:17] Um, is because, for me, the reason I'm most interested in spiritualism is because of the evidence that we provide through mediumship.

[00:11:27] Uh-huh.

[00:11:27] And to me, looking back to when I first got involved with it, it wasn't a blind faith as such.

[00:11:35] There was evidence to back up these claims, which is something I pride myself on even now with mediumship.

[00:11:41] I cannot provide evidence of God.

[00:11:44] And for me, that's what I struggle with is that I would never expect anybody to believe in my word unless I could provide evidence of that claim.

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:54] I've had no experience to relate to of a God.

[00:11:59] Yeah.

[00:12:00] So you don't believe...

[00:12:01] I even find the word hard to talk, to speak.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:05] God, I find it hard to speak about.

[00:12:07] So you don't believe we have that God spark inside of us then?

[00:12:10] No.

[00:12:11] See, I do, but I don't believe it's God.

[00:12:13] I think it's actually just spirit.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:15] I think everything is spirit.

[00:12:17] I think God's probably just...

[00:12:18] Don't you see, you would prefer to say divine spirit rather than...

[00:12:21] 100%.

[00:12:21] Yeah.

[00:12:22] Yes.

[00:12:22] Absolutely.

[00:12:23] 100%.

[00:12:23] And as most mediums...

[00:12:25] I say both.

[00:12:25] I struggle with the word God.

[00:12:27] I'm not sure if that really stems...

[00:12:30] Is God the spirit?

[00:12:30] Is God the divine spirit?

[00:12:32] The spirit within us?

[00:12:34] For me, God's just spirit world.

[00:12:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:37] God is just the spirit world and we're all part of the spirit world.

[00:12:41] So whether or not we all have that divine spirit within us, shall we say...

[00:12:45] It's God just the name that we've given it, the label that we've given it.

[00:12:49] I think that's an understanding that people don't have, that we are spirit before we come here.

[00:12:53] We are spirit in this body and we go back to spirit after we die.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] People don't recognise that.

[00:13:01] The general public don't recognise that.

[00:13:02] I'm a little bit like the Native American thinking where everything is spirit.

[00:13:08] Basically, everything that we come into contact with is spirit.

[00:13:11] You know, I know it's hard to perceive but that chair is spirit.

[00:13:14] No, we are.

[00:13:15] That brick spirit.

[00:13:16] I know we're very different but that's fine.

[00:13:19] No.

[00:13:19] That chair is definitely a chair fella.

[00:13:22] Yeah.

[00:13:23] But just going back to the term God, I'm not sure if that actually stems back historically

[00:13:30] to...

[00:13:31] I know we have to have a belief in a God to be classed as a religion within the UK.

[00:13:35] So you have to have God just to be a religion.

[00:13:38] You have to have the logic, yeah.

[00:13:39] Or a great, you know, something all being and powerful.

[00:13:43] So whether or not that stems from that historically, I don't know.

[00:13:46] I know it's controversial but for me, God's just a label of something that is greater than our understanding.

[00:13:54] And, you know, you could say the universe is God.

[00:13:57] You could say anything is God really.

[00:13:59] It's just a label that we put to something that's beyond our perception, I suppose.

[00:14:05] So is there any one of the principles that you particularly cling to, that particularly keeps you going?

[00:14:13] I would say the communion of spirit.

[00:14:16] Only because, to me, and I've said this before, there's police cars going past now.

[00:14:22] So, you know, the communion of spirit is why I'm involved in it.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:28] To me, that's why I'm here is to provide evidence of life after death.

[00:14:32] But also, and I've had this outlook for probably the past 10 years, if not maybe a little bit longer.

[00:14:41] And my purpose with mediumship is to either prove or disprove life after death.

[00:14:47] And I'm not really fussed which it is, so long as I get to the truth.

[00:14:52] And that's probably why.

[00:14:54] And even though I've had a lot of evidence, if someone showed me evidence to support the fact that it was something that we didn't understand,

[00:15:02] I'd have to accept that evidence if it was strong enough or profound enough.

[00:15:06] And I know that's very controversial, isn't it?

[00:15:09] Because then it's like...

[00:15:09] Very deep here.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:10] I think that we're not supposed to know these things, are we?

[00:15:14] No.

[00:15:14] I don't think we are.

[00:15:15] Can you imagine though, I mean, I've thought about this before, that if there was actual evidence given,

[00:15:22] and there was no going back on it, that there is a God and spiritualism is this, this is the way it's supposed to be.

[00:15:32] Just think about all the other religions like Catholic, Methodist and all that lot.

[00:15:39] We would then be saying, well, our religion is the way forward.

[00:15:44] This is the only way.

[00:15:45] Which we don't want.

[00:15:46] There would be fights and there would be arguments, there would be war, wouldn't there, over it all.

[00:15:52] But I think this is the beauty of spiritualism, that we would accept all of the religious beliefs.

[00:15:57] Exactly. Yeah.

[00:15:58] And respect these people that don't agree with us.

[00:16:03] Yeah. Every religion, I think, leads to the same road.

[00:16:06] Yes, exactly.

[00:16:08] I think it all boils down to the betterment of humanity, doesn't it?

[00:16:12] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:13] And what I've always said is, if someone finds peace and comfort in something,

[00:16:18] and they're not harming anyone else, what's the issue?

[00:16:21] Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:22] We're not expecting people to believe what we believe.

[00:16:26] No.

[00:16:26] We can provide evidence of that if you believe that.

[00:16:28] But isn't that, that's the good thing about spiritualism though, isn't it?

[00:16:30] Yeah.

[00:16:31] Because it's your own personal journey from your own experiences.

[00:16:34] It is.

[00:16:34] Your truth.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:36] Which is exactly like me talking about the chairbane spirit.

[00:16:39] Yeah.

[00:16:39] You don't agree with that, that's fine.

[00:16:41] Everybody's different.

[00:16:42] You're allowed to disagree.

[00:16:43] We don't agree on compensation and retribution here.

[00:16:46] No, I didn't want to mention that, but I thought I'll let you mention it, because I know you will.

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:52] I'm very different in my opinion, I suppose.

[00:16:55] You give your opinion first of what you think.

[00:16:57] Well, I like to think that we're here on earth and we see some awful things.

[00:17:02] We see people committing awful crimes and they get away with it.

[00:17:06] But I like to think that if they're not, if I don't, if they don't get punished here, they're going to be punished.

[00:17:11] Not exactly punished, but they're going to suffer for it in the hereafter, as the principle says.

[00:17:17] And I know Philip's laughing and he doesn't agree with me.

[00:17:20] I'm very different.

[00:17:21] But how else do you get through something tragic in your life that somebody else has done to you?

[00:17:26] I can appreciate that as well.

[00:17:28] For me, obviously, we've always had, we've had debates about this in discussion groups many a time.

[00:17:34] We have.

[00:17:34] And I'm under the train of thought of, if you walked out in the street and decided to punch somebody,

[00:17:43] not that you would, but say you did, that is your choice to do that.

[00:17:48] Your spirit did not force you to go out into the street and punch.

[00:17:52] You have to take responsibility for your own actions.

[00:17:55] 100%.

[00:17:55] Personal responsibility, yes.

[00:17:57] Now, I believe that...

[00:17:58] But if I go out in the street and punch somebody, I'm expecting to be, you know,

[00:18:01] Yeah, but say you got away with it.

[00:18:02] I have some form of...

[00:18:02] Yeah, but say you got away with it.

[00:18:03] Okay, I've got away with it.

[00:18:04] Yeah, say you got away with it.

[00:18:05] I hope I would feel guilty.

[00:18:06] You passed to the spirit world, your spirit didn't make you do that.

[00:18:10] Your mind made you do that.

[00:18:12] And without going too deep into it, is that differentiation between spirit and the mind.

[00:18:19] The unconscious mind.

[00:18:21] The conscious.

[00:18:22] I can't.

[00:18:23] I can't split the two.

[00:18:25] Yeah, I do.

[00:18:25] Now, to give some, I suppose, empathy to what you're saying as well is, I think that when

[00:18:32] we pass over to the spirit world, we probably judge ourselves as opposed to anybody else judging us.

[00:18:39] Yeah.

[00:18:39] So I think it's more of a reflection upon our lives, what we've done, what we've achieved, what we've done.

[00:18:45] Well, Les said in the last episode as well, though, wasn't it? It's almost like Steven Spielberg, as to quote his words, playback of your life.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:54] You're watching your life and you get to feel how you impacted on everybody, what you said, your words, your emotions, how they felt.

[00:19:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:02] So there you go.

[00:19:03] Is that not...

[00:19:04] Yeah, I think it is, but I think it's very different to...

[00:19:07] Is that not retribution?

[00:19:07] I think so, yeah. But I think it's very different to what a lot of people would perceive as retribution because, again...

[00:19:14] I don't think they're going to go to jail in the spirit world.

[00:19:16] No.

[00:19:17] Or to hell, quote on quote.

[00:19:20] No, they're not going to go to hell either.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:22] But I think it's about perception, isn't it? It's about perception of what happens when we pass over.

[00:19:28] But I mean, I used to, just a little jovial thing, I used to play a game with my friend Marina down in Rotherham, right?

[00:19:34] And if we were driving somewhere, at the time when I first met her, she could be quite judgmental with people.

[00:19:41] And I would say, we're driving down the road and someone walks past who looks questionable, maybe under the influence of something, who knows?

[00:19:51] And she would say, just look at them and I would know, I'd just know in my head that she's thinking something negative.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:00] And I'd say to her, you know, you can't be judgmental like that. You've lost a thousand points doing that.

[00:20:05] And we'd laugh about it, but it's about what you just touched on there is being the best you can be and being the best influence you can for everyone that you come into contact with.

[00:20:16] Yeah.

[00:20:16] And I always think, who am I to judge somebody else? Who am I to...

[00:20:20] But doesn't that come down with the other principle though?

[00:20:22] Because obviously we're talking about the religion, eternal progress open to every human soul.

[00:20:27] Exactly.

[00:20:27] Yeah.

[00:20:28] So that ties in with that, doesn't it?

[00:20:29] I need to progress a bit.

[00:20:31] Well, the only way you can progress, I think, is by only being responsible for your own actions, isn't it?

[00:20:36] Stop being a soul judgmental.

[00:20:37] Yeah.

[00:20:38] But sometimes I am.

[00:20:39] Well, I think everybody is to some extent.

[00:20:41] Everyone is. It's natural at times, isn't it?

[00:20:42] We're human.

[00:20:43] Yeah.

[00:20:43] What you spoke about right at the start is self-awareness.

[00:20:47] And that's where it comes into play, doesn't it?

[00:20:50] Is that personal responsibility, self-awareness.

[00:20:53] If you have them thoughts, acknowledge them thoughts, but then it's how you act upon them, isn't it?

[00:20:59] That's the important thing.

[00:21:00] And that's, I suppose, what leads to spiritual.

[00:21:03] Yes, you can look at somebody and think, oh my goodness, but you wouldn't go up to them and say what a mess you are.

[00:21:08] Yeah.

[00:21:09] Some people do.

[00:21:10] I hope it's out there, not in here.

[00:21:14] But yeah, so I think it's about us being the best that we can be.

[00:21:18] I've always said, be the best that you can be in the morning.

[00:21:21] That is one of your...

[00:21:22] I always mention it.

[00:21:23] You don't strive to be perfect, but just to be a little bit better than what you were the day before.

[00:21:27] Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:29] Oh, quite philosophical, isn't it, shall I?

[00:21:31] Good one, sure.

[00:21:32] Calm yourself down, or you'll be using that on philosophy next time.

[00:21:36] Yes, you will.

[00:21:37] Yes, you will.

[00:21:38] Why not?

[00:21:38] I freaked that one out.

[00:21:39] That sounds quite well used.

[00:21:42] So we digressed a little bit again.

[00:21:44] Just a bit, as always.

[00:21:45] We're getting good at that, aren't we?

[00:21:46] So, Jan, let's bring it back to the church, because obviously that's what we're here to talk about as well.

[00:21:51] Because we are sat here in Spennymore Church at the moment, aren't we?

[00:21:55] And it's a lovely little church.

[00:21:57] It's very welcoming.

[00:21:58] Do you want to tell us a little bit more about your church and what you do here?

[00:22:02] Yes, we're open, well, three nights every week.

[00:22:05] We have a divine service on a Sunday, an open circle on a Tuesday, healing every Thursday, which is a very nice service.

[00:22:15] And once a month we have a discussion group, which all of these services are open for anyone that wants to come along that has any interest at all in spiritualism.

[00:22:24] And how much are they, Jan?

[00:22:26] Donations.

[00:22:26] Don't have to.

[00:22:28] Just for anyone listening that's maybe not been into a church, what, so for example, what is a divine service?

[00:22:35] What are them services?

[00:22:38] A divine service is pretty much like going into any other church.

[00:22:42] We'd have a prayer, we'd have an address or a philosophy, not a sermon.

[00:22:48] We call it a philosophy.

[00:22:49] And then the last, let's say 45 minutes is, um, spirit communication.

[00:22:56] And an open circle night, anyone can, uh, work.

[00:23:00] So hopefully budding mediums or anyone that just thinks they're interested in it come along, ask questions, that kind of thing.

[00:23:07] Yeah, we used to call it DIY night, didn't we?

[00:23:09] DIY night, yeah.

[00:23:10] DIY night.

[00:23:10] I think it's important to remember.

[00:23:11] Where we don't have an invited speaker, yeah.

[00:23:14] Yeah.

[00:23:14] But it's also important to remember as well that you don't have to be a member, do you?

[00:23:18] No.

[00:23:18] Anybody can come to these events or services.

[00:23:20] Anybody can come into any of our services.

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:22] Anybody can.

[00:23:23] So everybody is welcome to attend.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:26] We try to do a little bits for charity.

[00:23:28] We had a Macmillan coffee morning where we raised about, gosh, I've forgotten, was it 250 pounds?

[00:23:34] Oh, I can't remember now, yeah.

[00:23:35] We had an evening for Donna's Dreamhouse in Blackpool a few weeks ago.

[00:23:41] We raised about 350 for that.

[00:23:43] They were very grateful.

[00:23:44] So it was about doing lots of charity events as well, isn't it?

[00:23:47] Mm-hm.

[00:23:47] So helping the community as well.

[00:23:48] Yes.

[00:23:49] Yeah.

[00:23:49] To get the religion known as well in the community, that we're not just here for spooky nights and giving messages.

[00:23:56] We're here to work in the community, hopefully.

[00:23:59] Yeah.

[00:23:59] And another thing to mention is one of the slogans, shall we say, of the SNU, which is the Spiritualist National Union.

[00:24:07] They're the governing body for SNU churches in the UK and some churches abroad.

[00:24:13] It's spirit in action.

[00:24:14] You talk about spirit in action a lot, don't they?

[00:24:16] Mm-hm.

[00:24:17] And to me, that's exactly what you're talking about there, where you're doing things to serve the community, getting out and about and stuff like that.

[00:24:23] Yeah.

[00:24:23] You didn't cover, sorry, healing services.

[00:24:26] So what is a healing service?

[00:24:28] Because some people might be sat there thinking, healing, what on earth are they talking about?

[00:24:31] It's spiritual healing.

[00:24:33] And you can either come into the church just to enjoy the atmosphere.

[00:24:37] You can come in and have hands-on healing in the church or just distant healing.

[00:24:43] But all our healing mediums are very highly trained to give spiritual healing, which doesn't come from them.

[00:24:51] It comes from the spirit world to them, to the recipient.

[00:24:56] There's no charge for this.

[00:24:57] There is a donation if you feel you want to.

[00:25:01] It is open to all.

[00:25:02] You don't have to be ill.

[00:25:03] You don't have to be dying.

[00:25:04] You can just be anxious or migraine, things like that.

[00:25:09] We don't profess to cure anyone, but we hope to help.

[00:25:14] Certainly help alleviate pain, help to alleviate sleeplessness.

[00:25:17] No communications are given on those nights.

[00:25:20] It is just dedicated to healing.

[00:25:22] For me, that's one of my favorite services, in all honesty.

[00:25:27] And that probably comes to a shock to a lot of people because I do mediumship, I do demonstrations.

[00:25:32] But to me, it's the given and the healing mediums that work there.

[00:25:38] They don't expect anything in return.

[00:25:39] They're solely there for the benefit of humanity.

[00:25:42] And even though mediums are, I would personally have everyone, if I could, do healing for a year before they go on to do any other form of mediumship because it just teaches you that.

[00:25:52] I'm going to beg to differ there because even when you are receiving or giving communication as a medium, you are effectively healing as well because that is a starting point.

[00:26:05] All forms of mediumship are healing, aren't they?

[00:26:08] Yes.

[00:26:08] And I think that's probably what the spirit world intend of us as mediums is to provide healing to people in one way or another.

[00:26:17] Exactly.

[00:26:17] For the betterment, shall we say.

[00:26:20] A lot of people come into a healing service and don't have hands on healing.

[00:26:24] They just come to enjoy that.

[00:26:25] The atmosphere.

[00:26:26] Peace and quiet and the atmosphere.

[00:26:28] I do that.

[00:26:28] Yeah, I do that quite a lot.

[00:26:29] It's just a lovely quiet hour that you can spend.

[00:26:31] Yeah.

[00:26:32] And there's the obligatory cup of tea afterwards in the chat.

[00:26:34] Obviously, yeah.

[00:26:34] Yeah, which is, I think tea just holds everything together, doesn't it?

[00:26:38] Tea in biscuits.

[00:26:38] Yeah.

[00:26:39] You can't have tea without the biscuits, myself.

[00:26:41] But the healing service for me, it's brilliant because…

[00:26:44] Can I just mention that it costs our healing mediums money to do this.

[00:26:50] They pay to train.

[00:26:51] They pay a fee every year to be able to do it.

[00:26:54] They have to become accredited, don't they?

[00:26:55] Yeah, that's important to remember, isn't it?

[00:26:57] They have to be a church member.

[00:26:58] They have to become accredited, yes, which costs them.

[00:27:02] And they do this just for the love of spirit and the love of humanity.

[00:27:06] Yeah.

[00:27:07] Which is excellent, I think.

[00:27:09] But what I was just going to mention is, when I come to the healing services in the past,

[00:27:14] it's basically you're just allocating yourself that time to have out because we live such busy lives these days.

[00:27:22] Sometimes it's nice just to have an hour, just peace and quiet, just enjoy, chill out, forget about everything else.

[00:27:28] And I'll often refer to it because when we sit in development classes and stuff like that, I'll say,

[00:27:34] all I'm doing is allocating you a time slot for you to spend with the spirit world.

[00:27:39] Yes, I'm giving you some guidance, but it's a spirit world that are unfolding you.

[00:27:43] And it's exactly the same with the healers, isn't it?

[00:27:45] It is.

[00:27:45] They're just allocating that time.

[00:27:47] They're getting that spiritual awakening or spiritual awareness.

[00:27:50] And same for the sitters as well, because even though there's no evidential communication takes place,

[00:27:58] the sitters often feel the presence of their loved ones there.

[00:28:02] They feel the presence of the spirit world.

[00:28:03] And if anything, that can be just as evidential for a lot of people.

[00:28:08] So, yeah, I just thought we'd touch on that because it's one of my favorites.

[00:28:11] That's the reward that the healing mediums receive.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:14] Just the satisfaction of doing that and giving comfort and healing to people.

[00:28:19] Yeah.

[00:28:19] Exactly.

[00:28:20] The same as a working medium.

[00:28:23] The satisfaction I imagine that they get from giving comfort to someone that's lost a person recently.

[00:28:29] They get that communication and it's part of healing as well, as Michelle said.

[00:28:34] Sometimes it can be that starting point.

[00:28:37] Yeah.

[00:28:37] It's lovely to see when you're chairing a service, the reactions of people, especially people that are new to this.

[00:28:45] You see the reaction when they're receiving this communication and quite often there are tears, but tears of healing.

[00:28:51] Yeah.

[00:28:51] And it's also tears of joy, isn't it?

[00:28:54] Yes.

[00:28:55] Yes.

[00:28:55] Yes.

[00:28:55] Both.

[00:28:57] So I think that probably leads us to just, we had an email, didn't we?

[00:29:02] We did, yes.

[00:29:03] From a lady called Betty.

[00:29:06] And in fact, she sent us a few, but I'll just read one out for this week because this leads from what Les was saying about his experience with the Robin.

[00:29:17] And this is what Betty wrote in.

[00:29:19] So I'll just read Betty's email.

[00:29:22] And she has wrote to us saying,

[00:29:23] a girl had said to her that her sister's baby was born on the day their dad died.

[00:29:30] And their dad had loved robins.

[00:29:33] And when this little girl was about two or three years old, she was spotted, sorry, she spotted a robin in the garden and shouted out and called out granddad, granddad.

[00:29:44] And she had, but this little girl had no inkling about her, you know, her grandfather loving robins or anything like that.

[00:29:54] And she'd said shortly after the girl, the lady had told her this story about the little girl, she'd found a message on her mobile phone from her sister showing the exact picture of that little girl when she was two or three years old looking at a robin in the garden.

[00:30:11] Oh, wow.

[00:30:11] So how's that for a little bit of a mysterious experience there, isn't it?

[00:30:17] It basically confirmed what we spoke about last time as well.

[00:30:21] Children as well.

[00:30:22] Children have an awareness of the spirit world.

[00:30:25] And, you know, it goes back to what I spoke about in here a few weeks back is communication with the spirit world is very natural.

[00:30:34] We all have that ability.

[00:30:36] Jan laughed because she said, I don't get anything.

[00:30:39] You do.

[00:30:40] But, you know, it's very natural.

[00:30:42] And it's only as we grow up that we lose that ability to some extent.

[00:30:47] And then when we get older and become aware of spirit or spiritualism in one way or another mediumship.

[00:30:53] We have to work to get it back.

[00:30:54] We've got to work to get back to that stage.

[00:30:56] Going back to that little girl and obviously the sensitivity with children, you know, when they're younger to do with the spirit world.

[00:31:03] And I remember an experience when my mum passed away.

[00:31:09] My husband was at home looking after my little boy.

[00:31:11] He was about 14 months at the time.

[00:31:14] And my mum passed away.

[00:31:16] It must have been about it was on an evening.

[00:31:18] And anyway, I drank my husband to say, oh, my mum's gone.

[00:31:23] And he said to me, oh, what time was that?

[00:31:26] So I told him the time.

[00:31:27] He went, do you know what's really, really strange?

[00:31:29] He says, because he woke up.

[00:31:32] My little boy woke up and started pointing towards the ceiling and shouting Nana, Nana around the time that she passed.

[00:31:38] You get chills.

[00:31:39] And I was like, oh, that is like really like, oh, shivery.

[00:31:49] So, yeah, it's great when you have experiences like that, isn't it?

[00:31:53] And obviously this little girl here not knowing her granddad and, you know, the little thing with the robin.

[00:32:00] Obviously that wasn't her granddad.

[00:32:01] Yeah.

[00:32:02] But because we talked a bit about that, actually, didn't we?

[00:32:05] About the robins.

[00:32:08] I think that might be.

[00:32:09] Was that when we were off?

[00:32:11] A lot of people perceive a robin as a sign from the spirit world, don't they?

[00:32:16] Yes.

[00:32:17] But we have to be realistic about it in our approach.

[00:32:22] Sometimes they want to see it.

[00:32:24] Yes, exactly.

[00:32:25] But there are some experiences that, you know, we cannot deny.

[00:32:30] Really?

[00:32:31] It's there, isn't it?

[00:32:32] Well, that email there, exactly.

[00:32:34] Yeah, exactly.

[00:32:35] It's very profound and evidential.

[00:32:36] But Betty, lovely Betty, wrote us a few, didn't she?

[00:32:39] Yeah.

[00:32:40] So I'll read some more out another time.

[00:32:42] But yeah, that was a little nice, nice little email.

[00:32:46] It's nice to get some feedback on some of your podcasts, isn't it?

[00:32:50] Yeah.

[00:32:50] To know what people think.

[00:32:52] Yeah, it is.

[00:32:53] Yeah.

[00:32:53] Especially their experiences.

[00:32:54] I love hearing about people's experiences.

[00:32:56] Have you had any, Jan?

[00:32:58] No.

[00:32:59] Did you not have, I was just going to ask on the back of that, did you not have any awareness

[00:33:03] as a child of spirit then or anything like that?

[00:33:06] Not that I can really remember.

[00:33:08] We were like that, weren't we?

[00:33:09] We talked about that actually, didn't we?

[00:33:10] Yeah.

[00:33:11] Yeah.

[00:33:11] Because I was in my 20s when I first had an awareness.

[00:33:15] But do you know what?

[00:33:16] I always knew though, because the spirit word told me that I would be working and I would

[00:33:23] go to Darlington.

[00:33:24] Oh, I love it.

[00:33:25] And at that time, I remember thinking, nah, what a load of rubbish.

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:31] But 10 years later, where did I end on?

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:35] To get you where they wanted you to.

[00:33:36] I was right.

[00:33:36] Yes.

[00:33:37] Obviously, they didn't want me to be a medium.

[00:33:38] They wanted me to be running this church.

[00:33:41] That's an important, that's a very important job.

[00:33:45] And obviously, you speak about quite a lot how we use the term clear vacant, don't we?

[00:33:50] In this place.

[00:33:51] That's me.

[00:33:52] And you don't give communications to anyone.

[00:33:56] No.

[00:33:56] But you're still aware of the spirit world if some change happens within a room or if

[00:34:03] the spirit world draw close to you, you have an awareness, don't you, of that?

[00:34:07] Slightly.

[00:34:08] Yeah.

[00:34:08] Slightly.

[00:34:09] You have a sensitivity.

[00:34:10] And I think that boils back to what we spoke about a couple of weeks back, that intuition,

[00:34:15] that instinctiveness in our body and soul of you just know when your loved ones are there,

[00:34:22] don't you?

[00:34:22] It's a knowing, isn't it?

[00:34:23] Yeah.

[00:34:23] It's a knowing.

[00:34:24] You just know.

[00:34:25] You know the difference.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:27] That leads us to the end of today's podcast.

[00:34:31] Thank you for coming on, Jan.

[00:34:32] Thank you, Jan.

[00:34:33] Thank you for inviting me.

[00:34:35] Lovely coffee, cakes and biscuits.

[00:34:38] Yeah.

[00:34:38] Yeah, so if you want a biscuit, just get yourself down to the spiritualist church and yeah,

[00:34:43] cheeky donation in the tub and Chris will be pleased.

[00:34:48] Definitely.

[00:34:48] But yeah, thank you for coming on.

[00:34:50] It's been really interesting.

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:51] It's quite nice just to get a different side of it as well because we always speak about

[00:34:57] mediumship and spiritualism.

[00:34:58] You don't have to have one for the other.

[00:35:01] You can have one without the other and vice versa.

[00:35:04] So it was interesting to get both sides of it as well.

[00:35:06] Can I just mention as well that Google says spiritualists are people that communicate with

[00:35:10] the dead and I don't.

[00:35:13] But the dead communicate with you.

[00:35:15] I hope I am a spiritualist.

[00:35:18] Well, I think it's nice that you've talked about your church and the love of your church

[00:35:24] and hopefully get rid of a little bit of that stigma attached to church.

[00:35:28] Because that's, you know, it's such a warm, welcoming place here.

[00:35:31] And I have to say it's lovely here.

[00:35:33] It is very nice.

[00:35:34] And you do get a lot of younger people as well.

[00:35:36] We do.

[00:35:37] You're in this church.

[00:35:38] You're doing something right, shall we say.

[00:35:40] So that's good.

[00:35:41] Exactly.

[00:35:42] So anyway, that leaves us to it.

[00:35:44] Well, thank you from me.

[00:35:46] Thank you for me.

[00:35:47] Thank you, Jan.

[00:35:48] You're welcome.

[00:35:49] If anyone's got anything to send in, please do so at the mediums voice podcast at gmail.com.

[00:35:55] Just like Betty did.

[00:35:57] We'd love to hear your stories.

[00:35:58] So get them sent in and we'll certainly try and fit them into an episode at some point.

[00:36:03] And thank you for your continued support.

[00:36:05] Thank you.