In this episode, we are joined by the inspiring Debra Chalmers, a gifted Spiritualist Medium & tutor at the Arthur Findlay College, as she takes us on a heartfelt journey through her life and work. Debra shares the experiences that led her to discover her unique abilities, her personal transformation, and how she embraced her role as a medium.
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Mediums Voice podcast, I'm Philip Robinson, joined here with co-host Michelle Mosley and guest medium this evening, Debra Chalmers. Welcome Debra, thank you for joining us.
[00:00:11] Thank you so much for the invite.
[00:00:12] So just to give people a little bit of background before we go into the nitty gritty of it all, Debra is a CSNU holder, DSNU holder and also tutor at the Arthur Finney College as well. So privileged to have you on here, so thank you for coming along.
[00:00:27] Oh, thank you for asking.
[00:00:28] Do you think we ought to explain the Arthur Finney College to people that don't really know what it is?
[00:00:33] Yeah, so just to give people insight into that, it's basically a big college down at Stansted for spiritualists to develop. There's lots of different tutors work there and I would say it's kind of the biggest spiritualist college probably in the world really, isn't it?
[00:00:48] There's nothing really of that scale anywhere else in the world.
[00:00:52] It's a bit like the Hogwarts of spiritualism, isn't it?
[00:00:55] Yeah, that's what they say, don't they?
[00:00:57] Yeah.
[00:00:58] Amazing place.
[00:00:59] Thank you for joining us.
[00:01:00] Well, thank you so much.
[00:01:01] I'm sure we will have a lovely, lovely podcast this afternoon.
[00:01:04] We've just sat and had a coffee and snaffled some cakes.
[00:01:07] Oh yes. Shout out, by the way, to the Auckland Cake Company in Bishop Auckland. If anyone needs very good cakes, I'd highly recommend them.
[00:01:16] Yeah, they're really nice. So first of all, Deborah, I think we'll get down into your life really, if you don't mind. And we'll just, for those listening that maybe don't know of you, I know you're very well known, but if there's people listening that don't know about you, can you tell us a little bit about you first of all, sort of how you got into spiritualism?
[00:01:36] Okay. When I reflect back, when I kind of think back, I'm 49, so when I kind of think back over my years, as a little girl, I was really often in another world, except you only know what you know.
[00:02:00] Yeah.
[00:02:01] And other times, I know that those imaginary friends were spirit. It wasn't like that all the time, by the way. Sometimes nothing, and then other times I'd be, or certain things stick out in my mind.
[00:02:14] Yeah.
[00:02:14] And then, once I got into my teenage years, I remember being really struck by the spirit world and being absolutely terrified. So it's a long time, isn't it, between 16 and 6? It's a lifetime.
[00:02:26] Same thing at the time.
[00:02:27] Even 10 years for us, it's a blink.
[00:02:29] So was it 6? You were at the age of 6 when you had your first?
[00:02:33] Around about then. Sometimes before, some families have said, oh, you were talking to people that weren't there, and I just don't remember.
[00:02:39] So I was little. I couldn't say exactly then, but I was small.
[00:02:44] But I remember specifically being about 16 because I remember being really frightened. At that time, I was having a lot of premonitions, so I was seeing things that were to come.
[00:02:56] Some things, not really that important, but it's big when you're that age, so I'd see something and then it would happen, and sometimes I'd see things and I was really frightened.
[00:03:08] Because I guess we don't understand it when we're young. And I remember going to see a medium when I was 16, and it was, I can still remember how it made me feel now.
[00:03:21] It was just breathtaking. It was the most magical experience I'd ever had. And I walked in and she said, you have the gift.
[00:03:28] I didn't know what she was talking about. I was like, do I? What does that mean?
[00:03:32] And I sat down and I can still, as I talk about it, it still makes me feel magical now. It was just out of this world.
[00:03:40] And she said to me, you'll be in the theatre and all of this stuff. Now, I was training to be a nurse, or was planning to train to be a nurse, so I thought, oh, I'm going to be a theatre nurse, which I wasn't, by the way.
[00:03:52] So she told me all of these things, and at that point she said, I can't help you, but there's somebody I know who can help you to train.
[00:03:59] We probably, maybe wouldn't do it in this day and age, but we are going back a long time.
[00:04:03] And it just didn't work. I kind of lost the phone number, lost the house number, so it just wasn't meant to be.
[00:04:11] But then I was really intrigued, and it just reignited all of that magic I'd felt when I was little, which felt a long time ago.
[00:04:20] And then around about that time, so this would have been about 91, I think, yeah, 1991, something like that.
[00:04:29] My mum was really drawn to come to the spiritualist church here, the one in Spennymo, Spennymo spiritualist church.
[00:04:35] And she said, I feel like going, and she was asking various family members, and people were like, yeah, if you want.
[00:04:41] But nobody was really committed. Do you know what it's like when you're trying to organise something like, yeah?
[00:04:44] But nobody makes any arrangements.
[00:04:45] We'll go at some point.
[00:04:47] And then, and I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll come, I'll come.
[00:04:51] And then she had this massive pull, probably for me.
[00:04:56] And then she said this one night, she said, right, if you don't come, I'm going on my own.
[00:05:01] And we all went, no, we'll come.
[00:05:02] So I came, my auntie came, various family members, and we all built in these doors.
[00:05:08] I had an out for the collection, I had two pence.
[00:05:10] And I was just, do you know when you get the giggles and you can't stop?
[00:05:14] Because we didn't know anything.
[00:05:16] And we put two pence in the collection.
[00:05:18] And I remember thinking, I'll get chucked out for laughing.
[00:05:21] But I remember feeling, it was so welcoming.
[00:05:24] And I remember one of the guys who belong in the spirit world now, just coming and welcoming everybody.
[00:05:31] And it was just fascinating.
[00:05:32] And all of the older mediums, when I say old, they'll have been about 30.
[00:05:36] You know what it's like when you're young, everyone looks old.
[00:05:38] But they looked old to me.
[00:05:41] Kept saying, she's got it.
[00:05:43] She's got it.
[00:05:44] And I was like, I don't know if I have.
[00:05:47] Because they were saying things like, oh, and there's so-and-so stood behind you.
[00:05:50] And we can see her.
[00:05:51] And I was looking with my eyes going, well, I can't see anything.
[00:05:55] Where?
[00:05:56] I don't have what they've got.
[00:05:57] Maybe I'm just making it up.
[00:05:59] So this went on for some years.
[00:06:01] And they'd all come around and say, what do you have?
[00:06:03] And I'd say, nothing.
[00:06:04] I don't have anything.
[00:06:06] And it was all just a little bit going on in my mind.
[00:06:10] And then I went off to train to be a nurse.
[00:06:12] So I worked in a nursing home for a year, which was a little bit like, or it felt to me a little bit like God's waiting room.
[00:06:19] Yeah, I've done a spell of that as well.
[00:06:22] Yeah.
[00:06:25] And sometimes there was, I remember there was one lady, I still remember her name.
[00:06:29] She was called Lizzie.
[00:06:30] And she had dementia.
[00:06:32] And we just had a death, which wasn't uncommon, as you know, Michelle, working in that field.
[00:06:37] I could see her.
[00:06:39] Objectively, I saw her out the corner of my eye, but so did she.
[00:06:41] Now, she couldn't speak anymore.
[00:06:43] She was just singing.
[00:06:44] That's how she expressed.
[00:06:45] So she was singing, look at that lady in the white knight.
[00:06:49] And I was like, you can see her.
[00:06:50] I can see her.
[00:06:51] But that was every now and again.
[00:06:53] Oh, you'd get shivers through your body, wouldn't you?
[00:06:56] And it was really, it was really quite magical.
[00:06:58] It was, when I look back at that point, like I found it hard being young.
[00:07:02] I was really awkward in my own skin.
[00:07:04] I was really shy.
[00:07:05] But actually, when I look back, it was quite a magical time.
[00:07:08] I was going to say, it is, isn't it?
[00:07:10] When you're doing, working with end of life, it is quite a magical time.
[00:07:14] It is because.
[00:07:14] You spoke about that quite a lot before, haven't you?
[00:07:17] Yeah.
[00:07:17] And it's precious, isn't it?
[00:07:18] It is.
[00:07:19] Yeah.
[00:07:19] Yeah.
[00:07:20] But I didn't perceive it to be that because I was, probably didn't know who I was or
[00:07:24] I was full of angst and shyness and all kinds of things.
[00:07:28] So anyway, after that, I went on to train to be a nurse and worked and qualified in
[00:07:35] the old Bishop Auckland Hospital.
[00:07:37] So for anybody who's maybe not local, it would be kind of, it was kind of a prefab hospital
[00:07:43] built almost just temporarily for the war.
[00:07:46] It's not there now.
[00:07:47] It's been, it was knocked down many years ago, but it was the old Nightingale Ward.
[00:07:52] So you'd have all the beds and it was all open and it was really drafty.
[00:07:56] So my job as a student nurse was to make, to do the teas.
[00:08:00] I can't remember if it was six or seven, but it was early and it was rattly and all the
[00:08:04] rest of it.
[00:08:04] And I had all sorts of conversations with different spirit people.
[00:08:08] Now, were they there or was I just really excited and reaching out to the spirit world?
[00:08:13] I think probably the latter with hindsight.
[00:08:16] However, if you'd asked me that at the time, I'd have said, yeah, they were visiting me.
[00:08:19] I think as a young girl, I was really excited by the spirit world and was open to it.
[00:08:25] But during that period, and I only worked there before I moved on to a different field in
[00:08:31] nursing for about, I think a year or 18 months.
[00:08:35] It wasn't a long time, but actually it feels a long time to me.
[00:08:40] And as I was working in oncology, obviously there was a lot of death.
[00:08:44] So that really, that really ignited something in me that brought everything back from being
[00:08:50] little to that point.
[00:08:54] So this went on for a number of years.
[00:08:56] I was kind of still coming to open circles as and when, but I would just know things.
[00:09:02] Now I couldn't have told you what was coming from the spirit world or what was psychic in
[00:09:07] a sense, what was coming from me, understanding people's lives.
[00:09:11] I just could do something.
[00:09:12] I could just, and I would just call it tuning in.
[00:09:14] I didn't know.
[00:09:15] I had no training.
[00:09:15] I didn't know anything.
[00:09:16] You just know what your experience is.
[00:09:18] You just know.
[00:09:18] And sometimes I could just feel a bit magical and I could just randomly stop people mid
[00:09:23] conversation and go, can I just interrupt you?
[00:09:25] This is going to happen or that's going to happen.
[00:09:27] And I didn't think about it or plan it.
[00:09:29] I just did it.
[00:09:30] So all of the nurses would say, are you patient?
[00:09:32] They'd ring and say, are you patients in bed?
[00:09:34] I'd say, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:35] Will you do that thing?
[00:09:37] Yeah, all right then.
[00:09:37] It used to pass the night.
[00:09:41] I'd say, if I come over, will you just see what you can get about this?
[00:09:45] And I didn't know anything about anything.
[00:09:46] And sometimes it would work and sometimes I wouldn't know.
[00:09:49] And that's just the way that it was.
[00:09:51] So that went on for a good few years, really.
[00:09:56] And then I was kind of coming to open circle.
[00:10:00] I was really keen to find something, but it just wasn't happening for me.
[00:10:03] I know now with hindsight, that wasn't my path.
[00:10:06] I've always had to do things the hard way.
[00:10:08] There's a hard way to do it.
[00:10:09] I've always found it.
[00:10:10] I think a lot of mediums are like that, aren't they?
[00:10:14] So that's the way that it was.
[00:10:16] But I remember coming to open circle and I think that would have been a decade later.
[00:10:21] And my spirit guide had said to me, you're up next.
[00:10:25] And I was like, I'm not getting out of this chair.
[00:10:27] And I was really, really shy.
[00:10:28] And I'm still actually quite a shy person.
[00:10:31] And I was like, I'm not getting up next.
[00:10:32] And he went, you are.
[00:10:34] And I felt, I wasn't, I wasn't.
[00:10:36] But I felt almost pushed out of my chair.
[00:10:39] I wasn't pushed out of my chair.
[00:10:40] But I was almost compelled.
[00:10:42] And I stood up and I said, I've got a man here.
[00:10:45] And he likes shepherd's pie and garden veg.
[00:10:48] And he looked like Jack Duckworth from Coronation Street.
[00:10:51] Nothing.
[00:10:52] Nothing.
[00:10:52] I was nearly crying.
[00:10:54] And I looked towards the person who was running it and went, I don't know what to do.
[00:10:57] And he went, thank you so much.
[00:10:59] You can sit down.
[00:11:00] I was mortified.
[00:11:01] I was with my friend and she was crying with laughter.
[00:11:04] And I was, I can't tell you how embarrassed I was.
[00:11:08] Yeah, you would be.
[00:11:08] Yeah.
[00:11:09] Yeah.
[00:11:09] And I was like, I don't know what to do.
[00:11:12] And I was like, I'll never do that again.
[00:11:14] And then this lady, I mean, let's face it.
[00:11:16] Anyone could have took that.
[00:11:17] It was, it was neither nothing to something, wasn't it?
[00:11:20] But that's what I had.
[00:11:21] And then this little lady came to us at the end and went, mind when you said that?
[00:11:26] Knew you had my husband.
[00:11:27] I've never been before.
[00:11:29] And I was like, oh, okay then.
[00:11:31] And I was like, I'll never, ever, ever do that again.
[00:11:35] I was so embarrassed and I just felt stupid.
[00:11:39] But I still kept coming because it made me feel like, when I used to come, I used to feel
[00:11:44] like I'd come home and I'd feel quite safe.
[00:11:46] There's a pull, isn't there?
[00:11:47] Yeah.
[00:11:48] It keeps you coming back.
[00:11:49] Yeah.
[00:11:49] There was a magic and there was a pull.
[00:11:50] And then I didn't stand up for a bit because I was a little bit like, I don't want to look
[00:11:54] stupid.
[00:11:55] I felt really stupid and I was still a bit embarrassed.
[00:11:58] But then the same thing happened and I get, get a little bit more, a little bit more.
[00:12:03] And then eventually it started to make a little bit of sense.
[00:12:05] So it wasn't so random.
[00:12:06] And then I got addicted.
[00:12:07] We do, don't we?
[00:12:10] You get addicted to it.
[00:12:12] So that was just wonderful.
[00:12:14] And then things got really busy and then I was, you know.
[00:12:17] That's when you end up like out four or five nights of the week, don't you?
[00:12:20] I know.
[00:12:21] It does impact on your family, doesn't it?
[00:12:24] Yeah.
[00:12:24] It does.
[00:12:24] But I was really busy with my work.
[00:12:26] So I'd been promoted a couple of times by now.
[00:12:28] I was managing sexual health services and I just didn't have time.
[00:12:32] Right.
[00:12:32] So I just stepped away from it.
[00:12:34] And then I had a really profound experience because not long after that, I wasn't happy
[00:12:41] with my work and I didn't like my boss and she didn't like me.
[00:12:44] And I said to the spirit world, I need you to help us here.
[00:12:48] And this is the most random thing.
[00:12:50] And I went to the yellow pages.
[00:12:51] Who even does that?
[00:12:52] I went to the random page.
[00:12:53] You don't have them anymore, do you?
[00:12:54] The yellow pages.
[00:12:55] That'll tell you how long ago it is.
[00:12:56] Yeah.
[00:12:57] And I found somebody and said, could you fit me in for a read?
[00:13:01] Now I wanted her to tell me I was going to get a new job.
[00:13:05] And I came out and I was really frustrated because I felt like what I'd been given wasn't very
[00:13:12] good.
[00:13:13] In hindsight, it was nothing to do with her.
[00:13:15] It was me.
[00:13:16] Yeah.
[00:13:17] If you ever can experience that as a medium yourself or for anyone who's listened, who's
[00:13:22] been, if we go in with something on our mind, we're a nightmare.
[00:13:26] And I was a nightmare.
[00:13:27] I'm a bit like that.
[00:13:28] But I came out and I, I mean, the arrogance of youth and thought, oh.
[00:13:32] You wanted her to tell you what you wanted to hear.
[00:13:35] But in essence, that wasn't a job to do that.
[00:13:38] Exactly.
[00:13:38] And I was so frustrated, probably with me, or maybe the frustration was meant to be because
[00:13:45] as a result, I thought, I'm going to start using this.
[00:13:48] And then the next day, I started to do readings for people.
[00:13:52] Bearing in mind, I've had no training.
[00:13:53] So I have no idea what I'm doing.
[00:13:55] I'm just working naturally.
[00:13:56] So it either went really well or really bad.
[00:13:58] And there was nothing in between.
[00:13:59] That's the truth.
[00:14:00] Did you do like open circles to start with?
[00:14:02] Did you?
[00:14:03] No, not really.
[00:14:04] A little tiny bit.
[00:14:05] Nothing really.
[00:14:06] Other than I do a little bit here.
[00:14:08] I didn't go anywhere else.
[00:14:10] And then I just thought, I'm just going to do these readings.
[00:14:13] So naive.
[00:14:14] Like when you think about how, well, was it brave or was it stupid?
[00:14:18] I don't really know.
[00:14:20] Or was it meant to be?
[00:14:22] Maybe it was meant to be.
[00:14:24] But anyway, so I started to just think, okay, then I'll just practice.
[00:14:28] And I was just given what I got.
[00:14:32] And within no time, people were, friends of friends were saying, can I have a go?
[00:14:39] Will you have a go with me?
[00:14:40] And sometimes I'd be really successful and sometimes there'd be nothing.
[00:14:42] And when there was nothing, I'd get really upset because I think the spirit world have
[00:14:46] left us.
[00:14:46] They hadn't.
[00:14:47] But I didn't know at that point that I could come out of my power.
[00:14:52] I didn't know what the power was.
[00:14:53] I'll be honest with you.
[00:14:54] I had no idea.
[00:14:55] So this went on for a while.
[00:14:57] And then I got so busy with everything.
[00:15:00] I didn't really have time to go to work.
[00:15:02] So I had to make a decision.
[00:15:04] So obviously it was meant to be.
[00:15:05] Yeah.
[00:15:06] Loop of faith.
[00:15:07] But at the time, because I was managing the whole of sexual health services, we were going
[00:15:11] through a redesign and I was leading the redesign.
[00:15:14] So I thought, actually, you can afford to let me go and get X amount of nurses.
[00:15:19] So that's what happened.
[00:15:20] And then the hard work started because that sounds really exciting.
[00:15:25] It was, when I look back, it was a really hard part of my life.
[00:15:30] I had lots of criticism, which helps us to grow.
[00:15:33] But you don't see it like that when we're super sensitive and we take things to heart.
[00:15:38] So it was, I had a real tough, another tough five years of really, it's a bit like learning
[00:15:46] yourself to drive and then you don't really learn until you pass your test, I suppose.
[00:15:50] And then once I worked for about five years and many times wanted to give up because I
[00:15:56] was just so lost in it.
[00:15:58] But I understand now that was part of almost a spiritual resilience in a way.
[00:16:03] After that, then the spirit world said, now you go to the Arthur Finley College and then
[00:16:08] I trained.
[00:16:08] So I did it back to front.
[00:16:10] Does that make sense?
[00:16:11] Yeah.
[00:16:11] So I did the practical and then I had to learn the theory.
[00:16:13] So I would go and they put me into the advanced group because I was out there demming,
[00:16:18] working.
[00:16:18] But I suppose I've sat with the spirit world many times and spoke about this.
[00:16:24] And I guess what I recognize is we all have our own individual pathway.
[00:16:28] Yeah.
[00:16:28] Yeah.
[00:16:29] And that was mine.
[00:16:30] And that gave me a lot of strength to be able to, I suppose, handle most things.
[00:16:37] So it was a little bit topsy-turvy and a little bit mad, but I suppose the rest is history
[00:16:43] in a sense.
[00:16:44] Do you think, do you think obviously because when you spoke about going to the Arthur Finley
[00:16:49] College there and you didn't have that training previously, to me that would kind of tell
[00:16:54] us that you've unfolded very naturally, maybe in the way that the spirit world's kind of guided
[00:17:01] you to in a way.
[00:17:02] Do you know what I mean?
[00:17:03] Maybe, maybe feel.
[00:17:04] I didn't see like that at the time.
[00:17:05] No, you wouldn't, would you?
[00:17:06] Yeah.
[00:17:06] I felt inferior.
[00:17:08] Yeah, I can imagine that.
[00:17:09] I felt inferior and I didn't feel good enough.
[00:17:11] And I really felt very disempowered for, so I would go through this phase of being really
[00:17:16] empowered.
[00:17:16] But then as soon as I started to train and you realize you don't know what you don't
[00:17:20] know, and there was a lot, then I almost became disempowered.
[00:17:25] Nobody did that to me.
[00:17:27] I did that to myself.
[00:17:28] But then eventually you come up the other side, don't you?
[00:17:30] And realize it's where it was meant to be.
[00:17:33] So what, what inspired you to go to the Arthur Finley then?
[00:17:36] Do you think it was the spirit world guided you?
[00:17:38] They told me, they told me.
[00:17:39] They gave me it many years ago, but I didn't really take notice of it.
[00:17:44] And then they said, now you're ready.
[00:17:46] Now you must go.
[00:17:48] So I was like, okay then.
[00:17:50] So, um, I'd been drawn to someone.
[00:17:52] So I thought, right, I'll go there.
[00:17:53] And they were fully booked.
[00:17:55] And I was like, oh, and they say, and the spirit world said to me, no, you'll be going
[00:17:59] clear your diary.
[00:18:00] And then they rang me about, oh, it might've been something like three or four days before
[00:18:05] the course was due to start.
[00:18:06] And they said, it's cancellation.
[00:18:07] Do you want it?
[00:18:08] And I was sick with nerves driving that way on my own.
[00:18:11] Didn't know anyone.
[00:18:12] Like I said, I'm really shy person.
[00:18:14] And I thought, oh, what am I going to do?
[00:18:16] Everyone's going to know each other.
[00:18:18] I'd never done anything.
[00:18:19] I'd been married since I was 20.
[00:18:21] I'd never done anything on my own.
[00:18:23] Um, and I walked in and I just thought, this is it.
[00:18:27] It's magic.
[00:18:28] Oh.
[00:18:28] And I just, it took my breath away.
[00:18:30] And I got into the lift with my case on my own and the door shut.
[00:18:33] And as we were going up to the floor, I did a little happy dance and I was like, I'm going
[00:18:38] to be all right.
[00:18:40] Yeah.
[00:18:50] Yeah.
[00:18:52] And that sense of belonging, belonging.
[00:18:54] Do you get that when you meet your tribe, where you meet your people, where you finally
[00:18:59] feel like you fit, like people finally get you.
[00:19:01] Yeah.
[00:19:02] And it is.
[00:19:02] Yeah.
[00:19:03] And you think these people are like me.
[00:19:06] They're weird in their own wonderful way and we can all be free and nobody was judging
[00:19:11] and there was a, there's a safety to it and a warmth.
[00:19:13] So I guess it was that feeling I was going for, um, and building confidence.
[00:19:19] And it was just, again, just like when I was talking about those young years as a young
[00:19:25] nurse, that's magical.
[00:19:26] When I look back, that was truly magic.
[00:19:29] Yeah.
[00:19:30] It's, it's interesting as well.
[00:19:31] That you felt drawn or had signs to go there before.
[00:19:36] Yeah.
[00:19:36] Didn't listen to the spirit world in a way.
[00:19:38] Didn't listen.
[00:19:38] Yeah.
[00:19:39] I think we're all guided, aren't we?
[00:19:40] Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:41] Because I think I, I spoke about when I first came into it and I was told I would be working
[00:19:46] the churches and I was like, no, no, no way.
[00:19:48] And you think, don't be silly.
[00:19:49] And the spirit world said to me, you'll be working, you'll go to Darlington Church.
[00:19:53] And that's where my journey of style.
[00:19:55] No, no, no.
[00:19:55] I thought I was just imagining things.
[00:19:57] Yeah.
[00:19:58] Yeah.
[00:19:58] Yeah.
[00:19:58] And it wasn't until my mom passed away.
[00:20:02] Yeah.
[00:20:02] And I ended up at the doors of Darlington Church.
[00:20:05] Yeah.
[00:20:05] And I remember them words coming back to me.
[00:20:07] Yeah.
[00:20:07] And thinking, but it is, yeah, you are.
[00:20:09] You're right.
[00:20:10] You're guided, yeah, by the spirit world, aren't you?
[00:20:13] Yeah.
[00:20:13] And maybe they plant the seed a bit like we sometimes do.
[00:20:17] I did it with my children.
[00:20:18] You probably did it as well with your children growing up where you just plant the seed and
[00:20:22] you think, well, you'll come back and remember that when you need to.
[00:20:25] Maybe they had to plant that seed, that 10 or whatever, however many years it would have
[00:20:29] been before I don't know, before I was ready to do something about it.
[00:20:34] Yeah.
[00:20:34] Yeah, exactly.
[00:20:35] Yeah.
[00:20:36] We spoke about this, haven't we, before on a previous episode.
[00:20:40] I was inspired to set up a podcast, must be five, well, a good few years ago.
[00:20:46] Yeah.
[00:20:46] Yeah.
[00:20:46] And I thought, I'm not going to do it.
[00:20:50] And we were just speaking about it before you arrived.
[00:20:52] And it was only this year, wasn't it?
[00:20:55] And I don't even know why, but one day I just spoke to Michelle.
[00:20:59] I was like, do you fancy doing a podcast?
[00:21:01] Yeah, wow.
[00:21:02] Let's do it.
[00:21:03] Yeah, okay.
[00:21:03] I'll do it with you.
[00:21:05] Yeah.
[00:21:05] And then that's how it all happens.
[00:21:06] Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?
[00:21:07] I always think back to that first time like you spoke about where I had that thought
[00:21:11] from the spirit world.
[00:21:12] And I think I should have listened to them years ago.
[00:21:15] Yeah.
[00:21:16] But maybe it's about divine time and maybe now is the right time for you both.
[00:21:20] Yes, exactly.
[00:21:21] Yeah.
[00:21:21] I think, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:22] I think you have a lot to go through, don't you?
[00:21:24] Yeah.
[00:21:25] A lot to go through in life.
[00:21:26] So can I just ask a question then?
[00:21:29] Of course you can.
[00:21:29] So how has your background in nursing, do you think, influenced your mediumship?
[00:21:35] How do you think that's enhanced it?
[00:21:37] That's a good question.
[00:21:39] I think when I think about my background, I worked a lot, particularly in my formative years
[00:21:47] as a nurse with death.
[00:21:48] Mm-hmm.
[00:21:49] And I think that really, because I was, as I was, well, nursing people, supporting families,
[00:21:59] communicating with them, helping them towards the end, that really, I dealt a lot with death
[00:22:05] in the first maybe three years of my nursing career.
[00:22:10] And I absolutely know that that helped me so much because I would see them or I would see
[00:22:15] their loved ones or I'd feel the energy and I'm sure you did too.
[00:22:19] Exactly the same, yeah.
[00:22:20] And I think that's precious.
[00:22:22] It is, yeah.
[00:22:23] I also trained to be a midwife for a while.
[00:22:25] It's the only thing I've never completed.
[00:22:27] Do you know what?
[00:22:28] I wanted to be a midwife and do you know what?
[00:22:31] I just couldn't do it because family, family commitments and it just wasn't possible.
[00:22:36] But there was something I really wanted to do.
[00:22:38] Something.
[00:22:39] Yeah.
[00:22:39] It was the only reason I trained to be a nurse, to be truthful with you.
[00:22:41] And I did about half of it and I absolutely loved it.
[00:22:50] And then my boss at the time said, I'm setting up in the community.
[00:22:56] If you fancy a job, it would have been a big promotion.
[00:22:59] I would never have got that midwifery.
[00:23:01] Had a young family.
[00:23:02] So I was like, do you know what?
[00:23:04] From a career perspective, that's going to be best.
[00:23:06] So I left it incomplete.
[00:23:08] It's the only thing I've never completed.
[00:23:09] And when I left it, I was thinking, oh, I just really loved it so much.
[00:23:14] But I know I probably wouldn't have been unhappy in my work later.
[00:23:18] But anyway, as a trainee midwife and had to deliver a lot of babies as well
[00:23:24] and obviously watched lots and lots, I would say the spirit will bring them in.
[00:23:28] So it's almost like we're escorted into this world and out of this world.
[00:23:32] And I absolutely know and believe that that pathway has helped me in so many ways for this career.
[00:23:39] And then latterly, when I worked in sexual health, I was in management.
[00:23:42] So I had to do a lot of communication, presentation and all of that helped as well.
[00:23:50] So it's so clever, isn't it?
[00:23:52] The way that the spirit will almost prime our lives for where we're going.
[00:23:55] So the experiences that you've had and gone through have helped.
[00:24:01] Yeah.
[00:24:02] With your mediumship.
[00:24:03] Yeah.
[00:24:03] It's quite interesting, isn't it?
[00:24:04] The way things...
[00:24:06] I know when I was working on end of life and I was doing demonstrations,
[00:24:12] I always found that if something had happened during the day that week and it would be brought up,
[00:24:20] you know, in your demonstration, your service, and it would mean something to somebody.
[00:24:25] So they use your experiences and your memories, don't they?
[00:24:29] Absolutely.
[00:24:29] They're great.
[00:24:30] It's wonderful the way they work with us through what we go through in life as well, isn't it?
[00:24:35] It's so clever, isn't it?
[00:24:36] The way that it all comes together in the end.
[00:24:39] But I always knew, and I used to say to people, I won't work in the NHS past 37.
[00:24:45] I just knew it.
[00:24:46] I couldn't have told you why, but that was right.
[00:24:49] Right.
[00:24:49] That was exactly right.
[00:24:51] So you just have that around.
[00:24:52] You get a feeling, don't you?
[00:24:52] You just know, yeah.
[00:24:54] I just, I always knew that I wasn't going to have a full career, even though,
[00:24:58] even as a tiny little girl, I wanted to be a nurse.
[00:25:03] But, I mean, that was that, I did that for as long as I needed to.
[00:25:07] And I still like to think, if we think about nursing, for me, it's all about being of service.
[00:25:12] That's what we're doing.
[00:25:13] For me, this work is about being of service.
[00:25:15] 100%.
[00:25:16] Yeah.
[00:25:16] It's about helping people.
[00:25:18] It's about being of support.
[00:25:19] It's about trying to be the best that we can be to help people when we're going through challenges and difficulties.
[00:25:25] And yet, if we don't have those challenges and difficulties ourselves, we can't do it in a way, can we?
[00:25:32] Yeah.
[00:25:32] I wouldn't like them all, though.
[00:25:34] No.
[00:25:34] But you never find, I've never come across any medium who's had an easy life, have you?
[00:25:39] No.
[00:25:39] No, definitely not.
[00:25:40] Absolutely not.
[00:25:40] I think we've all been through the mill, haven't we?
[00:25:43] But it does give you that empathy, doesn't it?
[00:25:45] Absolutely.
[00:25:46] With people that you come into contact with and especially for them, very specific moments that you think,
[00:25:53] there's no way I would bump into this person in any other walk of life.
[00:25:57] That's right.
[00:25:58] And when they've had an experience that you can relate to, it's, like you say, it's healing in the broadest perspective, isn't it?
[00:26:06] Yeah.
[00:26:06] It's all about healing in this work that we do.
[00:26:08] It's fascinating.
[00:26:08] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:09] Yeah.
[00:26:10] I'm very interested, actually, that you mentioned when you were a midwife and the spirit sort of coming here.
[00:26:16] So do you think that the spirit world's sort of ready before the baby's conceived or I'm just interested in that?
[00:26:26] I don't know if I'm honest with you.
[00:26:29] There's two things I can tell you with that.
[00:26:30] There's one thing that really sticks out in my mind really, really strong.
[00:26:34] And that was as a student midwife.
[00:26:38] And there were certain ones where you'd have to deliver so many before you could qualify.
[00:26:41] But this one, I was just observing.
[00:26:44] I wasn't involved.
[00:26:45] I was just stood out of the way watching.
[00:26:48] And I'll never forget it.
[00:26:50] I mean, I'm going back.
[00:26:51] I'm taking you back a long time now.
[00:26:52] I was just in my 20s at the time.
[00:26:54] There was the mother who was having the baby, her husband and her mother.
[00:27:00] So like the grandmother of the baby and they were there.
[00:27:02] And then maybe one or two midwives, I can't remember.
[00:27:04] But I was out the way.
[00:27:05] So I wasn't getting in anyone's way, just watching.
[00:27:07] And as this baby was coming into the world, I knew that the dad or the granddad of the baby was bringing the baby in.
[00:27:15] I could just feel it.
[00:27:16] And I can't remember the name.
[00:27:18] But for me, the name was something unusual, something I'd never heard before.
[00:27:22] And he, I can't remember.
[00:27:24] It's a long time ago, exactly what.
[00:27:26] But I kind of felt impressed with this name and that this child was being brought into the world.
[00:27:31] And then I nearly fell over when they said what the name was going to be.
[00:27:36] And it was this name, which was unusual.
[00:27:37] I can't even tell you what it was now.
[00:27:38] And I remember thinking, I can't tell anyone this.
[00:27:41] I couldn't.
[00:27:42] There's no way I could have shared that.
[00:27:43] That could have been the most precious thing.
[00:27:45] It would have been wrong on every level from the NHS policies, as you can appreciate.
[00:27:51] So there's just, I couldn't tell a soul.
[00:27:53] But I remember thinking, oh my goodness.
[00:27:57] So at what point, I believe that every child that comes in, because of that experience, the spirit world are there.
[00:28:04] I was privileged to be at the birth of my first granddaughter.
[00:28:08] She was born on August the 26th this year.
[00:28:12] And it was a very, very quick delivery.
[00:28:15] I think 50 minutes she was, you know, for a first baby.
[00:28:19] Absolutely amazing.
[00:28:20] That never happened to me, can I tell you?
[00:28:21] But anyway.
[00:28:22] I'll take your word for it.
[00:28:23] I have no idea.
[00:28:25] But anyway, and at that moment, I could feel my dad.
[00:28:29] I could feel my nan.
[00:28:31] I could feel the power of the spirit world bringing this little one into it.
[00:28:35] And I just thought, we're going to be fine.
[00:28:37] And it made me feel, again, one of those magical moments and really safe.
[00:28:43] And I believe that if that's true in those two situations, that's true for everybody.
[00:28:47] Yeah.
[00:28:48] And I just love that so much.
[00:28:50] So my daughter asked me lots of times, at what point do you think the soul?
[00:28:54] And I was like, I don't know.
[00:28:55] I don't know.
[00:28:56] We'll never know.
[00:28:57] I honestly don't know.
[00:28:58] I'm not going to know the answers to all these questions.
[00:28:59] I just don't know that.
[00:29:00] But all I can tell you is, both of those times, I felt that so strong that I knew it.
[00:29:06] Yeah.
[00:29:07] Yeah.
[00:29:07] That's really good comfort for yourself, isn't it?
[00:29:10] It's also a teaching point for you as well, isn't it?
[00:29:12] From the spirit world as well, when you think about it like that as well.
[00:29:15] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:17] Absolutely.
[00:29:17] They're always there to teach us something, aren't they?
[00:29:20] Most definitely.
[00:29:22] And when she was born, she had a playlist just on shuffle.
[00:29:26] But the song that she was born to, which could still make me cry thinking about it, was Enchanted
[00:29:31] to Meet You by Taylor Swift.
[00:29:33] And it was just out of this world.
[00:29:36] It really was.
[00:29:37] Thank you for sharing that.
[00:29:38] It's lovely.
[00:29:39] Yeah.
[00:29:39] I don't have any children, anything like that.
[00:29:41] No experience whatsoever with anything like that.
[00:29:44] You can have some.
[00:29:45] You can have mine if you want.
[00:29:46] No, I'm okay.
[00:29:47] A bit of experience for the day.
[00:29:49] It's the nicest way possible.
[00:29:51] But yeah, I find that fascinating because obviously I've never really had any experiences
[00:29:55] like that.
[00:29:56] So, and it's always something that we get asked quite a lot in this movement, isn't it?
[00:30:01] About children, either who passed through the spirit world or who were born into this
[00:30:07] world.
[00:30:07] So yeah.
[00:30:07] Yeah.
[00:30:08] Thank you for sharing that with us.
[00:30:09] It's lovely.
[00:30:09] Thank you.
[00:30:10] I can throw in some twins for you if you want some experience.
[00:30:14] Yeah, go on.
[00:30:14] Throw it in.
[00:30:17] That would be good.
[00:30:18] Yeah.
[00:30:19] The only thing I was going to ask is, and obviously we, I suppose then, we started out
[00:30:25] in the same little spiritualist church, isn't it?
[00:30:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:28] Going back, probably think of who the gentleman was that was here with Chilabee Michael, maybe.
[00:30:33] I can't remember.
[00:30:34] I won't say the surname.
[00:30:35] Yes, yes, yes.
[00:30:36] He was a president at the time.
[00:30:38] Lovely, lovely man.
[00:30:40] Was a lovely man.
[00:30:40] Yeah.
[00:30:40] Lovely man.
[00:30:41] But one of the things I was going to ask you is, back then we used to always get told,
[00:30:45] you know, spiritualism or the spirit world's going in this direction.
[00:30:50] And I would say now there's probably more people interested now than there ever has been
[00:30:56] in a way.
[00:30:57] There seems to be this pull into spiritualism or life after death, isn't there?
[00:31:02] And especially from younger people, in my experience, we get a lot of younger people.
[00:31:07] Where do you think it's going?
[00:31:09] Where do you think, do you think there's a change within people that are seeking this
[00:31:14] evidence?
[00:31:15] I think we're living in a world that is so challenging to young people at the minute.
[00:31:22] And I still believe that some of this was perhaps happened because of the pandemic, but
[00:31:29] we're still experiencing that there is a global spiritual awakening going on.
[00:31:34] Yeah.
[00:31:35] I do believe that.
[00:31:36] Now, whatever that means, but I believe that there's so much angst if we think about the
[00:31:44] world that our young people are growing up in with, I can't think of it, like social media
[00:31:48] phones.
[00:31:49] Do you know when we think about that and the angst that can bring with them that actually
[00:31:56] I feel like it's through times where we go through maybe trauma or challenges that sometimes
[00:32:04] something shifts in us or maybe we're soul searching.
[00:32:08] I believe that that spiritual awakening always starts with some sort of soul searching.
[00:32:13] Yeah.
[00:32:13] I'd be inclined to agree with that as well.
[00:32:15] And I mean, we can only reflect on ourselves.
[00:32:17] I only know what it's like to be me.
[00:32:19] I've never been anyone else.
[00:32:20] I don't remember.
[00:32:21] Exactly.
[00:32:21] But all I can tell you is that when I reflect back and maybe, maybe you two can maybe understand
[00:32:27] it from your perspectives maybe as well, that actually through, through the times that were
[00:32:32] challenging and really hard and were difficult, I couldn't see it at the time, but as a result
[00:32:37] of that, some strength and a spiritual awakening came out every time.
[00:32:42] I do get that.
[00:32:43] Yeah, I would say so.
[00:32:44] Definitely get myself at least.
[00:32:45] Yeah.
[00:32:46] You don't see it like that, do you?
[00:32:47] No, you don't.
[00:32:47] Not at the time.
[00:32:48] It's horrible and you might feel a bit lost.
[00:32:52] And, but when you reflect back, you think, yeah, that happened, but that it's like,
[00:32:56] I always say it's a gift in the odd shape box.
[00:32:58] Something comes out of it.
[00:33:00] And I think if we think about our young people at the minute, we're all searching, no
[00:33:04] matter what age we are.
[00:33:05] And we're all constantly searching.
[00:33:07] I don't know if I'll ever stop searching or learning.
[00:33:10] I hope not.
[00:33:10] How bad would that be?
[00:33:11] Yeah.
[00:33:13] But I believe actually when we're looking at young people, it's double-edged, isn't it?
[00:33:17] Because I think, you know, sometimes we're empowering our young people in a way that
[00:33:24] we weren't empowered or I wasn't.
[00:33:26] Maybe we're a similar age, Michelle.
[00:33:28] Yeah.
[00:33:28] We grew up in a different time where, you know, it was kind of just get on with it and
[00:33:34] there was no emotional support or you didn't hear of mental health really.
[00:33:39] I don't think.
[00:33:39] Do you remember that?
[00:33:40] No, I agree with you on that.
[00:33:41] That's one.
[00:33:41] Whereas now.
[00:33:43] It's different.
[00:33:43] It is.
[00:33:44] Yeah.
[00:33:44] And it needs to be different.
[00:33:45] And that's a fabulous positive thing.
[00:33:47] That's what I mean.
[00:33:47] It's a really good thing.
[00:33:48] So it's double-edged in the sense that we can be really empowering, but also this world
[00:33:55] we're living in is disempowering.
[00:33:57] Yeah.
[00:33:57] I agree with you on that one.
[00:33:59] Yeah.
[00:34:00] Yeah.
[00:34:00] So it's double-edged.
[00:34:01] Yeah.
[00:34:01] It is.
[00:34:02] Maybe that's the cause as well.
[00:34:04] You don't know.
[00:34:05] Yeah.
[00:34:05] I don't know.
[00:34:05] I just think, you know, it's just a hard time.
[00:34:09] Yeah.
[00:34:09] It's hard to get that balance as well.
[00:34:19] Yeah.
[00:34:41] It is.
[00:34:41] It is.
[00:34:41] You know, we were out.
[00:34:42] We didn't have a care in the world.
[00:34:44] We weren't thinking.
[00:34:45] Yeah.
[00:34:45] We were just doing.
[00:34:46] We were living in the moment.
[00:34:47] Yeah.
[00:34:48] Absolutely.
[00:34:48] Now, and I think today's children, when they're growing up, it's all technology, isn't it?
[00:34:56] And I think that they're actually living more inside themselves now.
[00:35:01] Yeah.
[00:35:01] So therefore there's more probably self-awareness, isn't there?
[00:35:06] Yeah.
[00:35:07] I'd kind of agree with that in a way.
[00:35:09] Maybe.
[00:35:09] I don't know.
[00:35:10] I think I'm probably on the cusp between these two changes.
[00:35:15] Yeah.
[00:35:16] When I was growing up, obviously, we still had phone boxes at the end of the street and
[00:35:20] stuff like that.
[00:35:21] But technology was creeping in, I would say, quite rapidly.
[00:35:26] It's easy to get lost, though, with all this technology.
[00:35:29] Yeah, it is.
[00:35:29] I agree.
[00:35:29] That's what I was just going to say.
[00:35:31] Yeah.
[00:35:31] Is that I think now the problem is where we're so sort of wrapped up in technology that people
[00:35:37] just forget to...
[00:35:38] You're not living in the moment, are you?
[00:35:40] Yeah.
[00:35:40] Yeah.
[00:35:40] I just have this feeling, and it's just my feeling that I've had a couple of times,
[00:35:46] that in the future we'll view technology now and the way that we've allowed our children
[00:35:51] to have it like we did in the 70s when you didn't wear seatbelts in the car.
[00:35:54] When you look back and you think, what do you mean you never wore a seatbelt in the back?
[00:35:57] Yeah.
[00:35:57] I honestly feel that it will change and it'll be just more limited or there'll be times
[00:36:03] where we're free of it again.
[00:36:05] Yeah.
[00:36:05] That's what I feel.
[00:36:06] I always have memories of driving to Birmingham and my mum smoking in the car with all the
[00:36:12] wind and stuff and there was just like a fog of smoke around us and we're like...
[00:36:16] Yeah.
[00:36:17] Yeah, but that's the way it was.
[00:36:19] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:20] Same for us.
[00:36:20] No seatbelts.
[00:36:21] No seatbelts.
[00:36:22] Smoking.
[00:36:22] Yeah.
[00:36:23] Yeah.
[00:36:23] Yeah.
[00:36:23] My mother used to say, if you don't behave, she'd put her hand between the two chairs
[00:36:26] and rattle our legs.
[00:36:28] Yeah.
[00:36:28] We'd be scrapping.
[00:36:29] Me and my brother in the dog.
[00:36:31] Yeah.
[00:36:33] I'm going to stop this car if you don't stop it.
[00:36:35] Yeah.
[00:36:36] Yeah.
[00:36:36] Absolutely.
[00:36:37] Yeah.
[00:36:37] Yeah, I had a bit of that in my life as well.
[00:36:39] Yeah.
[00:36:42] It's so different now though, isn't it?
[00:36:44] It is different.
[00:36:45] I mean, I must admit, you know, I'm quite careful with my...
[00:36:48] I mean, mine do love technology, my children, and they've got like the Xbox,
[00:36:52] like everybody else, they've got their phones.
[00:36:55] But I am really like, when we're sitting at the dinner table, it's like,
[00:36:58] you're not allowed anything.
[00:36:59] You know, put it down because we are talking.
[00:37:02] Yeah.
[00:37:02] But otherwise, yeah, they'll just sit there like any other child's sit there
[00:37:05] unless you say to them.
[00:37:06] I'm a bit like that.
[00:37:07] If we're at dinner, I don't expect someone to be sat on the phone.
[00:37:11] Do you know what I mean?
[00:37:11] I just think I wouldn't dare dream it.
[00:37:13] Yeah.
[00:37:13] My husband's like that as well.
[00:37:14] I have to tend to put his phone down.
[00:37:17] Sometimes we're worse.
[00:37:18] Yeah.
[00:37:19] I'm not going to name names, but my mum, Heather,
[00:37:24] she was once on a phone at the table and I was like,
[00:37:27] if you keep going, I'm taking that phone off you.
[00:37:29] I thought, I better be mum at you.
[00:37:30] What's going on?
[00:37:32] Bit of payback, I think it was.
[00:37:35] But yeah, I think that's everything.
[00:37:37] That's a wrap, isn't it?
[00:37:38] As we say, but I hope you've enjoyed it.
[00:37:40] I've really enjoyed it.
[00:37:41] So thank you so much for both inviting me in.
[00:37:43] It's been lovely to be here.
[00:37:44] Thank you for coming.
[00:37:45] Yeah.
[00:37:45] Thank you.
[00:37:46] Yeah.
[00:37:46] I'm sure we'll see you about again.
[00:37:48] If people want to find you, where can they find you?
[00:37:53] Do you have a website?
[00:37:54] I do have a website.
[00:37:55] Keep us right.
[00:37:56] Yeah.
[00:37:56] It's just deborachalmers.com.
[00:37:58] Perfect.
[00:37:59] Thank you so much.
[00:38:00] So if you want to find Deborah, have a look on there.
[00:38:02] And I'm sure you probably find all your events and everything on there where she's at.
[00:38:06] And I hope for all them budding mediums out there that you were an inspiration to us all.
[00:38:12] Well, listen, if you're a budding medium, keep going.
[00:38:14] You're doing a good job.
[00:38:16] So yeah, thank you for listening, everyone.
[00:38:18] Yeah, thank you guys.
[00:38:19] Thank you for coming along, Deborah.
[00:38:20] Thank you.
[00:38:20] It's been wonderful.
[00:38:21] If you want to send any questions into the podcast, you can do that at the mediums voice podcast
[00:38:27] at gmail.com.
[00:38:29] And please continue to support us and follow us on our social media platforms.
[00:38:34] And hopefully this has been a good little episode for you.
[00:38:37] And we'll see you again on the next one.
[00:38:38] Until next time.
[00:38:39] Yeah.
[00:38:40] Thank you.
[00:38:40] Bye.
[00:38:41] Thank you.
[00:38:41] Bye.